I don't really owe anyone an explanation regarding who I am and what I believe. I feel the need to explain myself however since there seems to be an overwhelming number of stupid or rude atheists. The obvious example is Bill Maher but the condition afflicts conservatives too.
It also occurs to me that religions offer a simple road map to a person's values. When someone says they are a Jew or a Catholic or a Muslim, you immediately know something about who they are and how they think. It's the user guide to their operating system, if you will.
An atheist can be anything. You can't know anything about them because many define themselves as anti-religion rather than simply non-religious. Most religions stress that a person should be good. To be totally anti-religious is to be against good. The militant disposition of many atheists serves as confirmation to believers that they are indeed evil.
I believe this is all by design. In political terms, the goal is to chip away at the big tent of conservatism leaving only the socially conservative base. Liberty and economic freedom are the unifying factors of conservatism that are ignored or vacuously mocked by the left. Atheists and social conservatives are driven against each other similarly to other single issue groups.
Militant atheism is actually subset of militant leftism. Observe how similar militant atheism is to militant feminism, militant environmentalism, militant racism (though they still call it equality), militant LGTB etc...
I have no problem with any of those things in their true and fair forms. If feminism is about the equal opportunity of both sexes than I'm a feminist. If Environmentalism is about conservation and efficiency then I'm an environmentalist. If Equal Rights are about equality of the races then I am on board. I actually don't believe in races. Science doesn't define race beyond the Human race so why would I buy into the social scientist (they aren't scientists) garbage?
I simply believe there is no God. I'm just not wired that way. I don't have that pull toward the supernatural. God is so obvious and so strong in some very smart people that I've concluded that they have some kind of wetware that I don't have. Maybe its like an antenna where you can tune into the presence of God? Whatever it is, I don't have it.
It's nothing against you believers.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not even absolutely sure about atheism. I'm an agnostic who's made an informed decision. I'm not sitting on the fence. I'm off the fence and standing the "maybe He isn't," side of things.
It's not about my Dad or a run in with a mean preacher. It's not to feel superior either. I am clearly inferior to many believers whom I hold in high regard. It's nothing more than an apolitical observation of nature.
This is where I caught on to the leftist game. Remember Sinead Oconor tearing up the photo of Pope John Paul II? I don't get that. What's wrong with the Pope? Of all the people to get pissed at, she hates the Pope? John Paul II was a good one. "Silencio!" He told some communists once. Yeah. Shut up!
I mean, fine, you don't like Catholicism. Go someplace else. Its a worshipers market. Whatever your preference, there is a church for you.
Catholicism and the Pope are evil? Nope. Don't buy that crap either. Leftist manipulation of the weak minded. So my dear departed Grandmother, who spent her life wishing, wishing, wishing on her knees for goodness and favor and protection, that was largely received, is evil? Sorry, I can think of a whole lot of evil in the world beyond that. Evil that lefties routinely apologize for. -strategize for. -lie for.
Religion is not the enemy. The Left is the enemy of Mankind.
An ideology that would force atheism on good people would not hesitate to indoctrinate them with their own beliefs. Look no farther than the green religion. Environmentalism has become the secular religion.
Giai is not a God. There are no sins against the Earth. It needs no offerings or gestures. Holy days like Earth Day and Earth Hour are as unremarked and unnoticed by the earth as detonating a Hydrogen bomb. The Earth does not get happy or sad if you eat organic food or Poutine from a burger joint.
The Earth is not a God. It is not sentient. It is not even alive. Yet people insist on endowing it with an imaginary spirit and a will. This is no different than worshiping the sun or a golden cow. It is still encouraged by our "secular" society.
I won't exchange freedom for tyranny simply to stamp on the beliefs of my forebears. They have built the greatest free society in history. I honour their achievement, even if I don't agree with them about everything. I'm not about to subscribe to the leftist wholesale ruin of our civilisation for the chance to swap one religion for another.
28 comments:
I'm a small-c conservative libertarian, and I think the reasoning here is pretty clear-cut; if someone is gullible enough to believe fairy tales about an invisible magic man in the sky that a book or apreacher tells them, then they are gullible enough to believe any BS story that a politician tells them. That's not good enough reason to believe anyone on ANYTHING without evidence, and "it makes me feel good" isn't evidence. Sadly, the Republicans now appear to be running on the Magic Underwear ticket, and if the same were to happen up here, I would have no choice but to vote Libertarian.
SDC
See I think its something more than "gullible." You aren't doing yourself a favor to think religious people are gullible solely by vitue of thier religion. I'm sure there are as many gullible believers as there are atheists.
There are atheists who use it as a smug cover for their own failings. There are others who thinks its cool or just don't want the trappings of religion on them. Some atheists know nothing at all about science and will preach all day about the "tar sands" or fracing.
I know very intelligent believers who have very good BS detectors. It just doesn't follow that being religious makes you dumb. It makes you wrong about something that doesn't really matter to the here and now.
You also won't get anywhere mocking them. It's like punching someone until they agree with you. It doesn't work, and then they hate you.
I strongly recommend reading the just released: Bad Religion: How We Became a Nation of Heretics by Ross Douthat. This is an amazing book that will answer how we came to be in the mess we are today economically, politically, socially etc through the disintegration of our traditional values that gave rise to greed and individualism. It even explains how atheists worship their own "God". The author is a columnist for the New York Times op ed page etc
SDC(Smallest Dick in Canada)says: ... "I'm a small-c conservative libertarian"
-- Who cares? STFU & die.
...."if someone is gullible enough to believe fairy tales about an invisible magic man in the sky that a book or a preacher tells them"
-- It's about moral stands and a way of life too you fuckhead. Some Christians are tormented in their faith in God. Faith takes work. It's not automatic or zombie-like. What about people who live thier life according to certain moral stands that Christians woulld agree to but yet they do not ascribe to any faith? Perhaps you have a problem with THAT?
..."I would have no choice but to vote Libertarian"
-- So? Buh-bye you spoiled, mouthy little shit. Have fun voting for a party that doesn't have a chance in hell of winning. You won't be missed. So don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
This is one of the best articles I have read. I could not agree more with your take on the issue in general. I also most strongly object to those determined to force their beliefs on everyone else, be they from an established religion or one of the newer religions such as environmentalism, man-made global warming, militant feminism, militant gays, militant atheism or any of the numerous others.
There is a big difference between god and the Earth. The Earth is real...
If not "gullible", either willing to LIE to themselves/not willing to expend the mental energy to evaluate what they believe, or simply verging on mentally-ill; neither case gives me any sort of reason to take anything else they say as a "given".
SDC
God, the creator of the universe was, is and always will be. we on the other hand have short and often miserable lives, especially when we try to live without God. old white guy.
Stick it straight up your ass, John; there is no more reason to believe in your insane cult than there is to believe in any other, so if you're deluded enough to believe in NONSENSE that contradicts itself on matters large and small, then you will believe ANYTHING without evidence. Just as one example out of many, your cult can't even keep its story straight on which day your cult leader was supposedly executed; "John" says the day BEFORE "passover", while "Mark" says the day AFTER "passover", and since the (unknown) authors of these fables were supposed to be observant Jews, having them forget which day it was supposed to be is no more believable than having YOU forget which day your birthday is, moron.
SDC
Ah yes the great divide. Those who are sighted and those who are blind debating the colours of a rainbow. Personally as a former atheist I am amazed at the paucity of rational thought in the atheist philosophy. On the other hand I am also amazed at the inability of the average believer to explain his point of view beyond cliches.
Anon1: Bad Religion, Ross Douthat (Do that? Doubt hat?) I'll add it to the list.
SDC and John: Thanks for proving my point. If we insist on fighting it only helps the enemy. The left thrives on turmoil and conflict. Hate makes you blind and stupid. Disagree about religion all you want. If you can't be civil to eachother how can you keep a civil society and government that reflects that? Let it go both of you. It's not helping the task at hand.
Alain: Thanks!
Anon2: -and the earth is not a God. I appreciate the earth like I appreciate my house. I don't worship my house. I wouldn't set off explosions in my house to prove it doesn't feel a thing. If it did explode I am the one who feels something, not the house. It's all about me. The earth is very important only in that it is vital to human enjoyment and happiness of it. With out mankind the earth is nothing but a great stew boiling away pointlessly in the dark.
Old White Guy: I hope you are right, and that you'll put in a good word for me if I'm wrong. ;) He's gone to great lengths to fool me so He must have a devine sense of humor. Life can be hared with or without Religion it seems. The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. -so does sunshine. Religion is the ultimate self-help tool ever devised. I wouldn't take it away from anyone.
Joe: so what made you believe Joe? -And what is it you believe? It's one thing to bleive in God. Its another to beleive in a Religion.
I could change my mind on God. He's got my number. That isn't a joke. It seems way more practical to just let me know rather than arranging the clouds or events into a sign of uncertain interpretation. Oh well.
Well Alex you are talking to one of the most un-religious Christians around. I preach and partake in Christian baptism, communion etc because I believe that is what God wants me to do not because it is some kind of 'redemptive ritual'. Nor do I speculate as to signs, omens etc. Rather I believe in God because of overwhelming evidence. I personally don't need to know the future because I know Who holds it and trust Him to unfold it as it should be unfolded.
Joe: Good for you. You preach, so tell the overwhelming evidence please. Try and do it without cliche as well. I've heard all the little analogies like the soul is a candle but God is the fire. I get that feeling that there is more to existance than what I can percieve or know but I can't clearly make out anything beyond that. To make that fogginess of aweness at the edge of perception out to be a glimpse of heaven and God is a pretty BIG leap of faith. It might only be noise. A byproduct of the machine itself.
Good luck, Alex; I've asked Joe this question MANY times before, and the extent of his "rational thought" on this issue is "I can't explain existence, so it must have been an invisible magic man in the sky that did it all". This is literally one step away from "the volcano god sent me a dream last night telling me that I have to sacrifice a virgin to him", and has no more evidence behind it than any other delusion.
SDC (Smallest Dick in Canada). I've read your bug eyed, spittle flecked, hysterical postings all over the internet. You shriek the same thing over and over. "**I'M** not going to vote for....!" - "**I** don't trust....". Then you pepper them with phrases like "Magic Sky pilot" or "Magic underwear") - phrases that you believe are so clever but you just stole them from some other site off the internet and are re-using them ad nauseum endlessly.
Here's your answer you emotionally unstable little fuck. WHO CARES?
Your just one little unstable angry little weasel sitting in front of your keyboard hating people. FUCK OFF.
Ok John you made me laugh, but that's it. No more feuding here.
Alex other than wasting energy trying to explain colour to a man born blind, there is no purpose in me trying to give you evidence. You can't see it anyway! I know because I too was once like you. I thought I knew it all. One day I received my sight and I understood what all those, I once thought of as idiots, were talking about. Then I realized they weren't idiots I had been the idiot along with all my shallow thinking atheisitic buddies.
You were like me but I can't be like you unless God wills it? Did I get that right? If God wants me to be an atheist, who am I to argue? He's put so much work into an alternate explanation that I don't really feel bad at all about it. Should I be able to outsmart God? I'm sure this is all terribly funny up in heaven. Here and now doesn't seem to change no matter what I think.
Alex if are at all interested in opening the door - try opening the door. Its like my cat and dog. If I leave the door open a crack my dog will sit and whimper to get me to open it. My cat hooks her paw through the crack and pulls the door open. If you are smart enough - hook your paw through the opening and pull it open. If you're not that smart then all the whimpering in the world isn't going to open that door. Right now you're just whimpering.
Alex, For what it's worth here's my position and thoughts on the subject. I go to church. My wife is a devout Christian and has a firm faith. My good friends are Chrisitans and also have firm faiths.
My faith wavers and there are times when I cannot honestly say I believe 100% in the Biblical God.
My wife & friends respect that and I show respect for their faith.
The new atheists do not show such respect.
I think when all the B.S. is cleared away it doesn't have much to do with evidence for or against God's existance. It has a LOT to do with living in a morally positive, responsible, disciplined life.
Most people in North America and Europe until three generations ago were brought up with a strict respect for values that co-incide with those taught in the Bible: Honesty, responsibility, work ethic, thrift and sound financial practices combined with voluntary charity, self discipline, self denial for the greater good, respect for parents and lawful authority, respect for the sancitity of the nuclear family, courage and stoicism in the face of aversity, protection of the weak even to the risk of one's self and duty to the community.
But in the last 3 generations in the western world we have lived in a time of prosperity and comfort unparallelled in history. This has lead to each generation having less respect for those very values that made our cultures and societies successful to begin with. Living up to these values is hard work. To a generation that is accustomed to everything being easy. It is easier to scorn these values than live up to them.
When one's preference is to scorn these values then one tends to scorn the belief system that personifies these values, Christianity.
You've got a good Dog Joe. I'm not a good Dog type of person. I feel like the cat who got out however. You've projected your animals onto me and its probably the same thing you do with a lot of things. I forgive you. Ok. I don't want to change you.
Can I ask you to read my post again? I wasn't really debating the existance of God, but making the point that non-beleivers and believers alike benefit from economic freedom and social liberty. We can agree to disagree on this topic and focus the machinations and manipulations of the enemy. The Left is the true problem.
I appreciate your first comment John. The next one will no longer be aloud. Sorry. Its exactly the thing I want to avoid. Its amazing the other stuff that I've had to censor. I just won't tolerate intolerance anymore from anyone.
Anyhow, for what its worth I admire Christian values. My values are objectivist/libertarian and compatible with yours.
Sorry 'bout that. My patience is very short with the new atheist types. If all it were was someone saying "I don't beleive in God because there is no physical proof that I am willing to accept".
That would be fine with me. I mean really who could argue with that?
But other guys like Maher and certain self described "Libertarian" commenters aren't content to merely announce that they are not convinced of the existance of God. They have to be insulting too.
Basically I've had enough. I like to fight back. As far as cooperating with them on certain political issues? That possibility is lessening. Would YOU cooperate with someone who goes out of their way to attack you?
Alex, my only point here is that I vote Conservative because I value logic, reason, and evidence over anything else, certain commenters' sacred cows be damned. I expect those qualities from doctors, mechanics, teachers, architects, and yes, POLITICIANS, and certainly wouldn't accept "trust me, and don't think too hard about this, but it's magic" from ANY of these people, so why would I accept it from anyone else? I'm honest enough with myself to demand that consistency, and it is beyond me how anyone who values truth can do anything less. Your page, your rules.
SDC
That's really great SDC. Religious people are very good at all those things. They are very logical too.
I'm just saying you don't need to bully them. Leave them be. It shouldn't actually matter what they think about an afterlife or God. They are good people who live good lives. They are productive members of society. More than I can say for some atheists on the other side of the ideological divide.
Stop poking them in the eye. They are not going to change for you. Especially not when you are so hostile. What do you want from them anyway? Don't you realize how many of them would fall into the pit of depression without God? It's in every culture everywhere. It's not a historical accident. It's human. It's like telling people to ungrow their appendix. Not happening.
All we can do is show that we can be good without God. So be nice so we can cooperate and get something usefull done
Believing in God doesn't make a smart person dumb. It should give him some humility, though, toward God if to no one else. That can't be a bad thing.
Atheism doesn't make a dumb person smart. It can, however, make him insufferably arrogant.
Or is it a chicken and egg thing? Is it rather that humble people find it easier to believe in God than do the proud?
People who are often right are often arrogant. Being right in the past doesn't insure against error in the future. Arrogance allows one to charge headlong into a mistake. Arrogance serves no one believer or not.
Don't mistake confidence for arrogance. I think atheism is a safe bet. That's all.
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